CartCisco announced, today, (March 16th) that “qualifying students” from Cisco’s 360 CCIE training program would be able to request a waiver for the “Core Knowledge” section of the CCIE Routing and Switching and Voice exams. Sounds good? Well… we think otherwise!
First of all, in order to qualify, students need to undergo the authorized 360 “workshop” (be sure to recognize that it’s 2 weeks of training and quite a bit more expensive than some of the other options out there) and, as usual, waiver requests need to be approved by the instructor from the workshop. The waiver is then submitted to Cisco for approval and approved or disapproved without clear indication of success of that request. The program is temporary and begins on April 1st 2010… just as another waiver program (that seems to have failed) is about to end.
The IPexpert team is determined to provide our students with the best possible training material available on the market. For that reason, we pledge right here and right now, that we will have the best preparation material on the market for the Core Knowledge section of the lab exams… by the time this program goes live. Yes, by April 1st of this year. All IPexpert clients will have access to an OEQ / Core Knowledge eBook (we will be delivering eBooks for the R&S, Voice, Security and Service Provider labs).
Combine that with our current products and offerings:
- World-class Video on Demand (with supplemental Student Slide & Topology Books)
- World-class Audio on Demand (lecture different than VOD)
- World-class ILT Training (Week 1)
- World-class OWLE Training (Week 2)
- World-class Workbooks (and accompanying Detailed Solution Guides)
- World-class Workbook Video Walkthroughs (Hundreds of hours of video solutions)
- World-class Rack Rental at ProctorLabs (Latest & greatest hardware, online, with an unmatched GUI)
- World-class Online Community at OnlineStudyList.com (free online mentoring avenues)
- World-class Technical Support for all issues
- The largest alumni of successful CCIE students overall
In addition to all of the above (current offerings and upcoming FREE Core Knowledge eBook), we are shortly going to introduce two additions to our family of products in all tracks. We call them “vLectures” and “Ask the Expert Sessions”.
vLectures will be 2-4 hour long, live online lectures, delivered by one or more of our instructors on a given subject through our online classroom. These sessions will also be recorded and posted to our student accounts.
Ask the Expert sessions will be 2-4 long online sessions with one or more of our instructors and will focus on either a specific technology or a given lab from our Workbooks. Students attending the sessions will interact with the instructors, ask the questions and gain invaluable expertise. These will, also, be recorded and posted to student accounts.
Oh and one more thing…
These three new products … are going to be FREE for all our current BLS customers in all tracks. No need to qualify or pay premium.
Do our students need OEQ waivers? We think not. Here at IPexpert, we deliver on our promise to make you experts – with no shortcuts. We don’t think you need to “purchase” the ability to pass or “waive” the OEQ portion of your lab (by paying upwards of x2 or x3 as much for less training, less support and less proven success).
Good idea by the 360 team, or an act of desperation to salvage a failing program? You make the call…
Regards,
- Wayne A. Lawson II (CCIE #5244) – Founder & President, IPexpert, Inc.
i may agree if they reduce the lab exam hours for those not taking the OEQ.
As promised, OEQ Workbooks are now available!
More details in a newer blog post here
–
Marko Milivojevic – CCIE #18427
Senior Technical Instructor – IPexpert
Join our Online Study List
What I’m concerned about is the fact that this option to waive OEQ by
allowing a 360 Instructor to give that option is that it divides the
people who have the resources to attend a 360 program from others who
do not.
If there’s an option to wave a portion of the test, it shouldn’t based
on who can afford to attend the class or not, I see it as almost
hurting the people who can’t afford to go to one of these classes. If
Cisco is willing to waive a part of the test it should be based on
proven knowledge and skill and not by paying a cost. Guess that’s what
most people mean by buying your numbers…
My 2 cents, I got my numbers by taking the OEQ version last march
2009, so I don’t have any personal interest right now.
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/message/57103#57103
You guys are kidding right!!!!
This is the worst thing that has happened to the program in the history of the program.
Last year – I got a little bird set of rumors – one of them was that the Cisco was going to put the squeeze on the non-Cisco instructors…And offer something those instructors could not compete against.
The Cisco 360 “Owned” Groupstudy promptly deleted my posts and about 18 months worth of posts just keep things on the down low…
Now… It looks like a well-planned and quite evil thought out plan to separate the dollars from the pockets of the students and CRUSH the competition all at the same time.
Ouch!!!
WTF!!!
1. Cisco made the OEQ – Supposedly to root out the cheaters….
Except when I reported the CCIE v4.0 was busted, disgusted, and could not be trusted effective as early as December 2nd 2009… to Rick Smith sometime in January with proof-positive… of the incident… I was told by Rick Smith that the Cisco’s Legal Team was working on it.
Meanwhile – things did not improve – people I know who went to the lab confirmed the demo lab was still in progress…
Worse – The dump forums where this stuff lives and breeds… Yep – Reporting taking the lab and even getting the same lab – oh yes and some did pass, not many but some did.
Some are the first-time passers too… Unbelievable…
My point: If Cisco wants to root out cheaters:
1. Change the OEQ more often – The same deck is quite famous and reportedly works as good for CCIE v4.0 as it did for CCIE v3.0… Hope that doesn’t break hearts…
2. If you know the test has been compromised – Change the damn thing!!! Do you really only have 1? 2? or 3? Seriously… How many candidates spend $1400.00 a day times how many seats times how many centers times how many billable days per year…
Stop being cheap and buy a vowel.
2. Cisco expanded the OEQ to other tracks… Hint CCIE Voice and CCIE Security – Yep totally compromised and this was reported too…
Seriously guys – Step up the game or just get out of the certification business. Really I mean it – Don’t step up if you can’t keep up!!!
WTF!
3. The Cisco 360 Drones Complained…
The Whiner himself said he recommended the program… Hah! It shows… Hey! Vegas, Booth Babes, and now this… Truly Classic!!!
Look – Don’t take my word for it. CCIE Trainers have been proud since the beginning of Testimonials and CCIE Lists of people who passed using their product…
Now do a scavenger hunt and check out the Cisco 360 Companies…
YES!!! Kill Stroke! How many actually have and CCIE RS CCIE’s in the list… Ummm…. double check… now are there any since October 18, 2009? Really? Ok Narbik got one on Friday – but the guy thanked Ruhann for the OEQ… Checkmate!
WAIT!!! Not just since CCIE v4.0… but take it back to the inception of the Cisco 360… Netmasterclass is a great place to start… FYI – one or two of the last couple of passers had multiple (as many as at the very least one had no less than 5 attempts… and being TAC helped too).
4. What on earth makes people who don’t have hardly any newly minted CCIE’s… qualified OVER and ABOVE those who do have newly minted CCIE’s (InternetworkExpert and IPexpert for example)…
WTF!
Wait… You really need to go back and read that and yell it out loud: WTF!!!
How in the hell are their programs qualified to make people exempt… They are not passing any now… AT ALL….
5. Did anyone think this piece of manure out? Really? I mean it… Really….
6. Now like it or not this gives a competitive advantage to the Cisco 360… kinda like the FREE REPEAT did…
Till everything Cisco 360 including Mock Labs were exposed to the public… Yes people… they are on share sites everywhere – some fools even tweet them – I kid you not….
Yep – I gave the heads up to the Program Manager types that call me and/or e-mail…
Could not save the Titanic if I tried….
FINAL THOUGHTS!!!!
1. Keep the OEQ for everyone…
2. Remove the OEQ for everyone….
One Cisco Instructor has openly and publicly said he does not like or agree with the OEQ WAIVER Program. That instructor was Narbik Kocharians on Groupstudy.
He may actually get more students for his courage – go figure…
Now he was publicly challenged (literally a “double dog dare”) by a guy named Redrose to put his money where his mouth was and put up or shut up kind of thing… and NOT offer the WAIVER to his students…
Knowing Narbik – He’ll probably do just that too.
If and when he does… then even the Cisco 360 Program Instructors are would not be “BUYING THIS BS”!!!
Let me get this reposted in a few places – just in case ya’ll try and delete it… which of course will give it more substance…
For the record:
I just got my training approved to attend a Cisco 360 Training Class – and I am mad about this double standard and won’t take a class with the Cisco 360 as I’d prefer to earn my CCIE and not be exempted from anything anyone else has to face in the lab… ie. I’m not going to Pay the Cisco 360 for Points!!!
Every CCIE – Past, Present, and Future needs to tell Cisco what they can do with the CCIE Waiver Program!!!
It’s probably an April Fool’s Joke anyway!!!
The main reason for Cisco 360 program to add this new cheap buying trick is that the Cisco 360 program is been out quite some time in the market with poor sales.
sales have been down from the start because of poor support, less blogs materials like ipexpert and INE.
They have some old videos of NMC as their 360 class on demand workbooks.
The old DO-IT workbook of NMC is used in the 360 workbook.there is nothing new in the workbook and similarly there is no material from Cisco 360 program for the OEQ.
Due to the poor sales of their product and seeing the low passing rate of CCIE R&S mainly because of the OEQ. and ofcourse upwards sales of IPExpert and INE through their world class products.
Only way to hit these providers is by luring the students by giving them a greater hope of passing the lab without worrying about OEQ by spending huge $$$ on the same.
It’s a not a waiver but a bribe demanded by cisco from the students.
In the first place the OEQ sucks it doesn’t challenge the students knowledge in anyway. It’s just a way to get more $$$ by multiple attempts.
The only way for all CCIE pursuing students to fight against this is dropping their dates and not supporting this corrupted program by Cisco.
when Cisco sees that within 2 to 3 months time there are hardly any lab exam dates booked this thing will be automatically called off probably even the entire OEQ.
These are just my views !!!!
Let there be pure troubleshooting and configuration in the lab and real way of testing knowledge.
Though a CCIE myself but hate the way Cisco works.
Wacko
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to add something more to the great offer Wayne included in this blog post.
We have added 400 hours of ProctorLabs rack time to every new BLS!
See more details about all new offers on our revamped website and contact your Training Advisor for the best CCIE training deal in the world!
–
Marko Milivojevic – CCIE #18427
Senior Technical Instructor – IPexpert
Join our Online Study List
[...] IPexpert blog, the first CCIE Vendor that I know of to address the situation, related their thoughts in an post by President and Founder, Wayne [...]
Brad Ellis is taking credit for this. He is obviously an idiot.
Yeah, he thinks this is going to make him a ton of money and put gray market companies out of business….he better think twice.
This is a joke and proof once again the OEQs are a money maker.
D
uuuups, that very bad. Why is Cisco doing that? Shit…it really seems that they are not longer interested in the knowledge, just want more $$$
With that they are telling that the 360 program is the only
correct one and when you’ve attended it, you have the knowledge and don’t need to pass the additional proof of the OEQ’s. I mean, people who have attended their 360 program will not cheat and therefore no need for the OEQ’s (if I recall right, cheating was the reason why they’ve introduced it.
All students from the other ad vendors have to proof their knowledge on OEQ’s…because they cheat???
Hmmm…. I don’t get the system behind…
Thanks Wayne, this new products sound promising, but I have an issue with existing products. I have been waiting for VoD since last 3/4 weeks, and everytime I speak to someone at IPX, i get an answer that we will start shipping them in next 4 to 5 days.
I think the whole thing with putting schedule for BLS does not work quite well. with that say IPExpert is the best compare to anyone else for sure.
Akash – I am working w/ the Instructors and fulfillment to ensure we hit timelines, but some have slipped a few days. We’ll be getting this stuff out ASAP – I’m just as anxious for our new stuff to hit the market – it’s incredible and I can’t wait for everyone to experience it!
Thanks Wayne, really looking forward to
As I go for CCIE SP, Cisco 360 is not an option.
However my personal opinion is that it is quite unfair that customers of different preperation providers are dealt differently because cisco is getting extra money for the Learning program licence and the weaver.
So I rated the announcement article on learningnetwork.cisco.com accordingly.
The announcement for the free additional training material is great, however my lab date is 17th may. Maybe you can release some teasers :-).
If I understand the documents correctly the candidates from the 360 program can use the saved 30 minutes for other exam sections. As the troubleshooting section is limited to 2 hours, this would give these candidates 6 hours for the configuration section, not just 5.5 hours.
Ok, if you can answer the core questions in 5 minutes, this also gives you extra time. But most candidates need more time for the answers.
Having 30 minutes of extra time for the configuration section makes this part of the exam easier as well. Hopefully we do not get 1st class and 2nd class CCIEs in the future.
I know Cisco owns the exam and makes the rules. But Cisco should not try to promote their official training this way.
Wilhelm
CCIE #25603
I’m really dissapointed with this notice…
Thought that the main goal was getting real certified people (and not those buying exams or cheating)…and we find that i’ts only a business decision. If you want to skip a section, come and buy my material. Is that fair?
I’m sorry, but I’ll keep pushing and buying the material that I consider that will improve my skills and not an exam section…by the time 360º is not in my plans.
In the meantime I’ll have to update my policy…
(I’ve posted the following in several forums, and internal groups within Cisco)
Just read an announcement this morning that if you attend a Cisco 360 workshop, the core knowledge section (OEQ) is waived. I may be alone in this, but I foresee a couple issues with this exemption.
First, while I don’t think the OEQ is weighted fairly to the overall lab exam, I don’t like the sound of “assumed” knowledge – the Cisco 360 has no pass/fail option – therefore, just pay for your training and you are automatically pass a required section of the exam?? Doesn’t seem right.
Second, I have developed relationships with a few trainers/owners of several learning providers, many of whom post to Groupstudy, and I don’t think it’s fair to their business or the quality of their training materials. Many (or all) of them are Cisco partners and accept Cisco Learning Credits – but for those that don’t offer the licensed 360 program, their future customers would seem to drift toward the 360 offerings if for no other reason than to bypass the dreaded OEQ… And I say dreaded not based on true difficulty, but rather the fact that missing this section all but exempts you from the rest of your day…. Hmmm, kinda like the old 2-day format when we had “early dismissals”
-Bill
That reminds me that I need to go down to the clerk’s office and pay $50 so I can get my concealed carry permit… :)
Seriously though, I think that the OEQ is a stupid concept to begin with. Isn’t that what the written qualification exam is supposed to be for? Keep people from cheating on the written, make it harder, keep the content fresh,…
There should only be config and troubleshooting on the lab exam, and I think that the new t/s section was the right thing to do. Just my opinion of course.
i would like to sponsor “CCIE earned not purchased”
Starting April 1 ???… Let’s hope this is a joke….
have to tell you, I don’t question the quality of the 360 material (I used them in 2008 and it was just great) but I think Cisco went too far now…
that’s some sad news and it definitely puts Cisco into check for what they want to do with the CCIE program in general.
Sorry for all the vendors that support it, it’s your business, and you do what you gotta do, but this is
just some serious BS. What’s next? If you buy Ciscopress books you can take them into the lab?
This is ridiculous!! Lets devalue the CCIE program some more by allowing certain students to have an advantage over the others. I thought the OEQs were put in to combat cheating not to be another money making scheme.
Of course it’s all about the money!! Cisco’s certification program wasn’t started as a public service to all us networking people.
I don’t think Cisco has taken pleasure watching the number of CCIEs fall through the floor since they implemented the OEQ. The less people indoctrinated with the “Cisco is the only option” mantra, the more Cisco profits will continue to suffer. Not the case with all CCIEs, I know, but certainly with a portion of them. The more Cisco-certified people there are, the more benefit to Cisco.
Cisco wants to see just what happens when they take candidates they “know” are qualified and remove the OEQ variable – and then compare to candidates they’ve “known” were qualified but failed with the OEQ in place. Perhaps Cisco360 Lab Rats would be more appropriate.
If they feel they can preserve the certification’s integrity while removing the OEQ, that’s exactly what they will do. Are they smart enough to make the correct decision. Nope, I don’t think they are.
Is Cisco on it’s way out. Yes, I think so. But the main reason is not certification integrity. They are becoming your typical fat-cat corporation – overpriced and too cocky and overweight to make big changes. Cisco, meet Kmart. Kmart, meet Cisco.
Pure discrimination over non-360 students, Cisco shouldn’t do it!
Sad days for the CCIE and the Cisco 360 Program…
CCIE Students probably need to ask “Why do Cisco 360 Program Students need handouts in the first place?”…
There is a reason.
Either no OEQ for everyone or leave it the way it is now.
Darby Weaver
http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
Already posted extensively on the matter…
By doing this cisco is saying that they train thier students to a level where they CANNOT pass the OEQ’s……that in other workds a 360 student is a 2nd class CCIE and nothing more.
Cisco is now helping “CCIE” to be a 2nd class certification.
Thanks Cisco !
Guys, I’ve sat the voice lab twice. None of the other tracks, so I can’t comment on the difficulty level of the OEQ’s. But for voice, the OEQ’s are the easiest part of the test.
That’s why they changed the scoring from 21 points to 4 points. It was easy-money to pass the OEQ’s and gain 21 points, no problem.
If you go sit the lab, you’ll see what I mean. It’s very basic questions. The actual lab however, is still a beast of another nature.
If someone goes through this 360 program to skip “hard” questions, how much does it say about the validity of his technical skills? I think people doing the 360 route, will be regarded as less-deserving CCIE’s when they get their number.
Dear All CURRENT CCIEs,
According to recent announcement from Cisco …
they let some set of students (C360) to ignore OEQ section in lab exam.
I ask/appeal all the current CCIEs to go against this decision.
Yes, Cisco owns CCIE, it is their trademark and they are controlling. But you made it. You made it beautiful.You wake long nights to make it happen. You did all the hard work, scarification and dedication to pass the exams.
You know how hard was it. You have gone through.
You can save the value of CCIE.
Because you all earned. You did not buy.
Pass the word … “earned not bought”.
Wrong move Cisco.
Please rectify the grave mistake.
What is the need of the exam then?
Make it like all 360 students automatically get CCIE numbers.
This is what happens when a non techie VPs and Directors are incharge of a Certification like CCIE.
Man, they look for money everywhere to please JC.
It is all about buying and earning.
There are so many vendors providing different kind of training. But as you all know it is the most recognized certification in IT world … no vendor could give grantee for passing …
no body could buy it. every one had to earn it.
though hard studying, scarification and dedication.
Now if you have enough money (few thousands $$ – not very big number) you can get rid of 1/3 of exam. OEQ is 1/3 of exam … without passing OEQ … we can not pass the exam.
So C360 students can buy 1/3 of exam and earn rest.
and others has to earn 3/3 of exam …
in near future they will say if you attend to C360 … you do not need to sit for the Lab …
They are violating fundamental human rights of non-C360 students … :-P
This is great news. I’m anxiously awaiting the free books and free online training. Great move IpExpert!
mr wayne you have best products for CCIE no worries.
Why pay that much when you can get ultimately get the braindump. Id rather go to a proven class than buy from someone who needs a gimmick just to sell.
This means that the proctor setting up the lab for the candidate will
need to know in advance that a waiver-boy is coming.
I think exisiting CCIEs should be able to bypass this section for
subsequent tracks too ;)
Next they will be waiving the entire lab exam because you took the 360………… LAME!
I think I understand Cisco’s logic but this announcement doesn’t seem very fair to the non-360 training providers. No one said the game was fair, I guess.
I think it’s easy for lab candidates to get spooked by OEQs, possibly to the point where they’d pay large sums of money just to avoid facing them at all.
I reckon it’s a bit of a scam. Ultimately what you need to do as a candidate is the same — you need to have a solid theoretical understanding of the in-scope topics.
You either prove to a Cisco 360 instructor that you know your stuff and get a waiver, or you prove it to _yourself_, toughen up, save some dough, and face the OEQs in the lab.
Just my 2c.
thanks but no thanks.
the OeQ are not are hard.
I’ll now purpose fully not support any 360 kiss ass vendor.
Let’s see:
CCBOOTCAMP, cheapest class:
$2595.00 / 4 (OEQs) = 648.75 per question.
How in the world is this up there with “most important since 2 day to 1 day”? Is it because Cisco is allowing you to pay them off for the OEQs? Seems like a pattern since they still let actualtests and testking stay alive. Maybe they are finally coming clean on their intent.
Travis
In other news, Cisco released a field notice yesterday warning non-360 candidates to begin wearing protective cups to help shield themselves from low-striking announcements such as this one.
Ridiculous!!! To give people an advantage for simply choosing the Cisco way of studying for CCIE is beyond me.
On the other hand, it’s only four questions…
Oh well, apparently the 360 people need this favor in order to pass the lab.
I’m disgusted by this announcement. Why add OEQ’s to the exam and then offer a waiver if you pay extra? I’ve always looked at EARNING your CCIE # NOT BUYING it!
Just got your tweet, this is BS! Pay Cisco to get a different lab? No, I don’t agree with this tactic, report it here: http://www.ftc.gov/bc/tech/contact.htm