Comments on: IPexpert is a BETTER VALUE than Internetwork Expert http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/ CCIE Candidates blog for all technical overviews relating to CCIE R&S, CCIE Voice, CCIE Security & CCIE SP Thu, 02 Feb 2012 07:42:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Matt Brooks http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Matt Brooks Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:45:56 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-27 Walter, The value of videos being produced in hi-def is a matter of opinion, I suppose. My assumption is that most people would prefer video products -- especially ones you will have to stare at for hours and hours -- to be provided in hi-def as opposed to not being hi-def. It significantly reduces strain on the eyes! About the benefit of seeing the instructor on the screen, this has been a MUCH praised feature among our customers. It helps to engage the viewer and keep interested/attentive on what you could agree can be very dry material. If you don't agree with me on these points, that's OK. I won't force you to purchase the products. ;) About whatever mock labs you're referring to in IE's course, I assume that was a another feature they added to their site (along multiple others) as they began addressing issues after the Tolly Group report was released. Feel free to ask IE or Tolly for confirmation if you'd like. On your point about the structure of our course, if you review Tolly's report, I believe you will find a clear indication of which days are instructor-led and there are links directing readers to IPexpert's web pages and IE's. Since we have not made changes to our course descriptions, what was represented in Tolly's report is just what you can see on our site today. If you do not like the structure of our course, I won't force you to register. (Others will be happy to.) Thanks again! Walter,
The value of videos being produced in hi-def is a matter of opinion, I suppose. My assumption is that most people would prefer video products — especially ones you will have to stare at for hours and hours — to be provided in hi-def as opposed to not being hi-def. It significantly reduces strain on the eyes! About the benefit of seeing the instructor on the screen, this has been a MUCH praised feature among our customers. It helps to engage the viewer and keep interested/attentive on what you could agree can be very dry material. If you don’t agree with me on these points, that’s OK. I won’t force you to purchase the products. ;)
About whatever mock labs you’re referring to in IE’s course, I assume that was a another feature they added to their site (along multiple others) as they began addressing issues after the Tolly Group report was released. Feel free to ask IE or Tolly for confirmation if you’d like.
On your point about the structure of our course, if you review Tolly’s report, I believe you will find a clear indication of which days are instructor-led and there are links directing readers to IPexpert’s web pages and IE’s. Since we have not made changes to our course descriptions, what was represented in Tolly’s report is just what you can see on our site today. If you do not like the structure of our course, I won’t force you to register. (Others will be happy to.)

Thanks again!

]]> By: Matt Brooks http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-2954 Matt Brooks Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:45:56 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-2954 Walter, The value of videos being produced in hi-def is a matter of opinion, I suppose. My assumption is that most people would prefer video products -- especially ones you will have to stare at for hours and hours -- to be provided in hi-def as opposed to not being hi-def. It significantly reduces strain on the eyes! About the benefit of seeing the instructor on the screen, this has been a MUCH praised feature among our customers. It helps to engage the viewer and keep interested/attentive on what you could agree can be very dry material. If you don't agree with me on these points, that's OK. I won't force you to purchase the products. ;) About whatever mock labs you're referring to in IE's course, I assume that was a another feature they added to their site (along multiple others) as they began addressing issues after the Tolly Group report was released. Feel free to ask IE or Tolly for confirmation if you'd like. On your point about the structure of our course, if you review Tolly's report, I believe you will find a clear indication of which days are instructor-led and there are links directing readers to IPexpert's web pages and IE's. Since we have not made changes to our course descriptions, what was represented in Tolly's report is just what you can see on our site today. If you do not like the structure of our course, I won't force you to register. (Others will be happy to.) Thanks again! Walter,
The value of videos being produced in hi-def is a matter of opinion, I suppose. My assumption is that most people would prefer video products — especially ones you will have to stare at for hours and hours — to be provided in hi-def as opposed to not being hi-def. It significantly reduces strain on the eyes! About the benefit of seeing the instructor on the screen, this has been a MUCH praised feature among our customers. It helps to engage the viewer and keep interested/attentive on what you could agree can be very dry material. If you don’t agree with me on these points, that’s OK. I won’t force you to purchase the products. ;)
About whatever mock labs you’re referring to in IE’s course, I assume that was a another feature they added to their site (along multiple others) as they began addressing issues after the Tolly Group report was released. Feel free to ask IE or Tolly for confirmation if you’d like.
On your point about the structure of our course, if you review Tolly’s report, I believe you will find a clear indication of which days are instructor-led and there are links directing readers to IPexpert’s web pages and IE’s. Since we have not made changes to our course descriptions, what was represented in Tolly’s report is just what you can see on our site today. If you do not like the structure of our course, I won’t force you to register. (Others will be happy to.)

Thanks again!

]]> By: Walter Gibbons http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-26 Walter Gibbons Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:17:35 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-26 What about your 9 days of training where there is an instructor present vs. the 12 days with IE. I have nothing to refute your claim that after the report was released did IE include their materials with the 12 day boot camp. No comments on the Mock Lab not being represented in the report despite the fact IE does include them? Not sure where you get that I have never used either companies Audio/Video product. I in fact have the IE Audio CoD, as well as the Advanced Technologies CoD, and have listened to and viewed your audio and video sample from your BLS demo. I'm really not sure what you are disagreeing with, I'll concede that I'm not sure about IE offering of the E2E program along with the 12 day BC prior to Oct 15, and the the Audio / Video on Demand comments are an opinion, but the Mock Lab point and your 12 days of training are really only 9 with an instructor appear to be factually based upon review of both your sites. What about your 9 days of training where there is an instructor present vs. the 12 days with IE. I have nothing to refute your claim that after the report was released did IE include their materials with the 12 day boot camp.

No comments on the Mock Lab not being represented in the report despite the fact IE does include them?

Not sure where you get that I have never used either companies Audio/Video product. I in fact have the IE Audio CoD, as well as the Advanced Technologies CoD, and have listened to and viewed your audio and video sample from your BLS demo.

I’m really not sure what you are disagreeing with, I’ll concede that I’m not sure about IE offering of the E2E program along with the 12 day BC prior to Oct 15, and the the Audio / Video on Demand comments are an opinion, but the Mock Lab point and your 12 days of training are really only 9 with an instructor appear to be factually based upon review of both your sites.

]]> By: Walter Gibbons http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-2953 Walter Gibbons Sat, 01 Nov 2008 19:17:35 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-2953 What about your 9 days of training where there is an instructor present vs. the 12 days with IE. I have nothing to refute your claim that after the report was released did IE include their materials with the 12 day boot camp. No comments on the Mock Lab not being represented in the report despite the fact IE does include them? Not sure where you get that I have never used either companies Audio/Video product. I in fact have the IE Audio CoD, as well as the Advanced Technologies CoD, and have listened to and viewed your audio and video sample from your BLS demo. I'm really not sure what you are disagreeing with, I'll concede that I'm not sure about IE offering of the E2E program along with the 12 day BC prior to Oct 15, and the the Audio / Video on Demand comments are an opinion, but the Mock Lab point and your 12 days of training are really only 9 with an instructor appear to be factually based upon review of both your sites. What about your 9 days of training where there is an instructor present vs. the 12 days with IE. I have nothing to refute your claim that after the report was released did IE include their materials with the 12 day boot camp.

No comments on the Mock Lab not being represented in the report despite the fact IE does include them?

Not sure where you get that I have never used either companies Audio/Video product. I in fact have the IE Audio CoD, as well as the Advanced Technologies CoD, and have listened to and viewed your audio and video sample from your BLS demo.

I’m really not sure what you are disagreeing with, I’ll concede that I’m not sure about IE offering of the E2E program along with the 12 day BC prior to Oct 15, and the the Audio / Video on Demand comments are an opinion, but the Mock Lab point and your 12 days of training are really only 9 with an instructor appear to be factually based upon review of both your sites.

]]> By: Matt Brooks http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-25 Matt Brooks Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:18:17 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-25 Walter, thanks for your feedback. I disagree with your points, but appreciate your thoughts. It was not until after the Tolly Group's report came out that IE included their products into their 12-day boot camp offering. So, what you just pointed out as "the key thing this report left out" is only true after the fact, my friend. :) Any comparative analysis is only a "snapshot" in time. Commonly, as everyone saw IE do, the comparison leads to a rush to address shortcomings. Regarding our audio and video products, it seems difficult for you to provide any critique, having never used either product. Surely, there are plenty of your peers purchasing, using and learning from these products (or we would not be offering them), right? Walter, thanks for your feedback. I disagree with your points, but appreciate your thoughts.
It was not until after the Tolly Group’s report came out that IE included their products into their 12-day boot camp offering. So, what you just pointed out as “the key thing this report left out” is only true after the fact, my friend. :)
Any comparative analysis is only a “snapshot” in time. Commonly, as everyone saw IE do, the comparison leads to a rush to address shortcomings.
Regarding our audio and video products, it seems difficult for you to provide any critique, having never used either product. Surely, there are plenty of your peers purchasing, using and learning from these products (or we would not be offering them), right?

]]> By: Matt Brooks http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-2952 Matt Brooks Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:18:17 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-2952 Walter, thanks for your feedback. I disagree with your points, but appreciate your thoughts. It was not until after the Tolly Group's report came out that IE included their products into their 12-day boot camp offering. So, what you just pointed out as "the key thing this report left out" is only true after the fact, my friend. :) Any comparative analysis is only a "snapshot" in time. Commonly, as everyone saw IE do, the comparison leads to a rush to address shortcomings. Regarding our audio and video products, it seems difficult for you to provide any critique, having never used either product. Surely, there are plenty of your peers purchasing, using and learning from these products (or we would not be offering them), right? Walter, thanks for your feedback. I disagree with your points, but appreciate your thoughts.
It was not until after the Tolly Group’s report came out that IE included their products into their 12-day boot camp offering. So, what you just pointed out as “the key thing this report left out” is only true after the fact, my friend. :)
Any comparative analysis is only a “snapshot” in time. Commonly, as everyone saw IE do, the comparison leads to a rush to address shortcomings.
Regarding our audio and video products, it seems difficult for you to provide any critique, having never used either product. Surely, there are plenty of your peers purchasing, using and learning from these products (or we would not be offering them), right?

]]> By: Walter Gibbons http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-24 Walter Gibbons Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:17:55 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-24 I have been following all the posts in all the key blogs and following all the vendors for literally the last year. I feel it's time to speak up. I hope this makes it to the blog, and is available for others to read. My blog will be up soon. I'll start with this "Tolly Report" The key thing this report left out is that when you purchased InternetworkExpert's 12 Day boot camp you get the End to End program included, which includes all the workbooks, CoD etc ($2995 retail). The report also glazes over the fact that your 12 Day training is really 9 days, vice the full 12 days you get with IE. Your second week of training states "Friday is reserved for a Q&A sessions, review, and group discussions. During the first four days of week two, the instructor will be available for individual discussions, questions and guidance." Which means you only have an instructor present 9 of what you count "12 days of training" Those are some very important things left out of the report. You sell your Audio lectures for $599, which imho is overpriced, compared with the $99 Audio lectures (not sure they sell the individual product anymore) from IE. As far as mock labs during the 12 days of training it states clearly on InternetworkExpert's website "Days eight through eleven, students are given a mock lab exam each day that is designed to simulate the conditions of the actual CCIE Routing & Switching lab exam. In total, each candidate will receive and complete four unique mock lab exams. Students are expected to complete each exam in 8 hours, and are provided an additional 30 minutes for a lunch break. After completion, the exams are graded by our CCIE instructors." But your "Tolly Report" fails to pick up on that. As for your HiDef VoD, I'm not sure there is much to be gained from hi-def if I am looking at slides and a command prompt. And if I'm looking at someone talk on screen, that means I'm not looking at a command line or slides helping me learn the material, we're right back to "enhanced audio". As a business I would be professionally embarrassed to tout a report like this, and this reflect poorly upon Tolly for their oversight on such key things. But who thought this was an independent report anyway? Wally I have been following all the posts in all the key blogs and following all the vendors for literally the last year. I feel it’s time to speak up. I hope this makes it to the blog, and is available for others to read. My blog will be up soon. I’ll start with this “Tolly Report”

The key thing this report left out is that when you purchased InternetworkExpert’s 12 Day boot camp you get the End to End program included, which includes all the workbooks, CoD etc ($2995 retail).

The report also glazes over the fact that your 12 Day training is really 9 days, vice the full 12 days you get with IE. Your second week of training states “Friday is reserved for a Q&A sessions, review, and group discussions. During the first four days of week two, the instructor will be available for individual discussions, questions and guidance.” Which means you only have an instructor present 9 of what you count “12 days of training” Those are some very important things left out of the report.

You sell your Audio lectures for $599, which imho is overpriced, compared with the $99 Audio lectures (not sure they sell the individual product anymore) from IE.

As far as mock labs during the 12 days of training it states clearly on InternetworkExpert’s website

“Days eight through eleven, students are given a mock lab exam each day that is designed to simulate the conditions of the actual CCIE Routing & Switching lab exam. In total, each candidate will receive and complete four unique mock lab exams. Students are expected to complete each exam in 8 hours, and are provided an additional 30 minutes for a lunch break. After completion, the exams are graded by our CCIE instructors.”

But your “Tolly Report” fails to pick up on that.

As for your HiDef VoD, I’m not sure there is much to be gained from hi-def if I am looking at slides and a command prompt. And if I’m looking at someone talk on screen, that means I’m not looking at a command line or slides helping me learn the material, we’re right back to “enhanced audio”.

As a business I would be professionally embarrassed to tout a report like this, and this reflect poorly upon Tolly for their oversight on such key things. But who thought this was an independent report anyway?

Wally

]]> By: Walter Gibbons http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-2951 Walter Gibbons Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:17:55 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-2951 I have been following all the posts in all the key blogs and following all the vendors for literally the last year. I feel it's time to speak up. I hope this makes it to the blog, and is available for others to read. My blog will be up soon. I'll start with this "Tolly Report" The key thing this report left out is that when you purchased InternetworkExpert's 12 Day boot camp you get the End to End program included, which includes all the workbooks, CoD etc ($2995 retail). The report also glazes over the fact that your 12 Day training is really 9 days, vice the full 12 days you get with IE. Your second week of training states "Friday is reserved for a Q&A sessions, review, and group discussions. During the first four days of week two, the instructor will be available for individual discussions, questions and guidance." Which means you only have an instructor present 9 of what you count "12 days of training" Those are some very important things left out of the report. You sell your Audio lectures for $599, which imho is overpriced, compared with the $99 Audio lectures (not sure they sell the individual product anymore) from IE. As far as mock labs during the 12 days of training it states clearly on InternetworkExpert's website "Days eight through eleven, students are given a mock lab exam each day that is designed to simulate the conditions of the actual CCIE Routing & Switching lab exam. In total, each candidate will receive and complete four unique mock lab exams. Students are expected to complete each exam in 8 hours, and are provided an additional 30 minutes for a lunch break. After completion, the exams are graded by our CCIE instructors." But your "Tolly Report" fails to pick up on that. As for your HiDef VoD, I'm not sure there is much to be gained from hi-def if I am looking at slides and a command prompt. And if I'm looking at someone talk on screen, that means I'm not looking at a command line or slides helping me learn the material, we're right back to "enhanced audio". As a business I would be professionally embarrassed to tout a report like this, and this reflect poorly upon Tolly for their oversight on such key things. But who thought this was an independent report anyway? Wally I have been following all the posts in all the key blogs and following all the vendors for literally the last year. I feel it’s time to speak up. I hope this makes it to the blog, and is available for others to read. My blog will be up soon. I’ll start with this “Tolly Report”

The key thing this report left out is that when you purchased InternetworkExpert’s 12 Day boot camp you get the End to End program included, which includes all the workbooks, CoD etc ($2995 retail).

The report also glazes over the fact that your 12 Day training is really 9 days, vice the full 12 days you get with IE. Your second week of training states “Friday is reserved for a Q&A sessions, review, and group discussions. During the first four days of week two, the instructor will be available for individual discussions, questions and guidance.” Which means you only have an instructor present 9 of what you count “12 days of training” Those are some very important things left out of the report.

You sell your Audio lectures for $599, which imho is overpriced, compared with the $99 Audio lectures (not sure they sell the individual product anymore) from IE.

As far as mock labs during the 12 days of training it states clearly on InternetworkExpert’s website

“Days eight through eleven, students are given a mock lab exam each day that is designed to simulate the conditions of the actual CCIE Routing & Switching lab exam. In total, each candidate will receive and complete four unique mock lab exams. Students are expected to complete each exam in 8 hours, and are provided an additional 30 minutes for a lunch break. After completion, the exams are graded by our CCIE instructors.”

But your “Tolly Report” fails to pick up on that.

As for your HiDef VoD, I’m not sure there is much to be gained from hi-def if I am looking at slides and a command prompt. And if I’m looking at someone talk on screen, that means I’m not looking at a command line or slides helping me learn the material, we’re right back to “enhanced audio”.

As a business I would be professionally embarrassed to tout a report like this, and this reflect poorly upon Tolly for their oversight on such key things. But who thought this was an independent report anyway?

Wally

]]> By: The IPexpert Blog » Internetwork Expert’s Major Announcements! http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-23 The IPexpert Blog » Internetwork Expert’s Major Announcements! Fri, 31 Oct 2008 07:21:37 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-23 [...] the Tolly Group report showed the offset in value, as advertised by IPexpert and IE product and course offerings, IE [...] [...] the Tolly Group report showed the offset in value, as advertised by IPexpert and IE product and course offerings, IE [...]

]]> By: The IPexpert Blog » Internetwork Expert’s Major Announcements! http://blog.ipexpert.com/2008/10/20/tolly/comment-page-1/#comment-2950 The IPexpert Blog » Internetwork Expert’s Major Announcements! Fri, 31 Oct 2008 07:21:37 +0000 http://ipexpert.ccieblog.com/?p=103#comment-2950 [...] the Tolly Group report showed the offset in value, as advertised by IPexpert and IE product and course offerings, IE [...] [...] the Tolly Group report showed the offset in value, as advertised by IPexpert and IE product and course offerings, IE [...]

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